… I Couldn’t Pay One Room Rent
… I Started Rhema With Two Members
… I Opens Up On Prophets Chris Okafor, T. B Joshua
… Speaks On Rhema Deliverance Mission 20th Anniversary
When Top Celebrities Magazine staff writer, Abiola Oduola visited RHEMA DELIVERANCE MISSION at the church’s testimony hour on Sunday October 6th, 2013, it seemed a make believe when the alleged woman (Sally) who was said to be having an affair with her spiritual father, Prophet Dr. Anene Nwachukwu was sighted on the altar conducting the testimony hour and assembling the testifiers.
All seems to be well between the alleged woman, the Prophet and her husband who was said to be at war with his wife and the prophet.
What we witnessed was contrary to the on-going rumour that the woman’s husband has left the church due to the battle between him and the prophet but he was sighted during the church service dancing to praises rendered by the church choir.
The church service which began at 8a.m ended around 5p.m before we met with the prophet in his office with some of the church’s elders and invited pastors around the world.
When talked about the issue, he, however, started by saying there’s no issue to clarify.
He said he doesn’t want anything to be written about him as debunking the allegation against him which doesn’t exist, he added further by calling the attention of other pastors present in his office as testifiers and they all laughed it off, saying the source which the story came from must be joking. When we requested for Mrs. Sally and her husband if they could be involved in the interview, the prophet of God who was fair to us and said as a friend to the press, he wouldn’t want us to be in trouble by bringing in the woman’s husband whom he called his lawyer-son, as he can take up the issue which could invocate violence between him and the press, which might affect his ministry and personality, he made us to understand the man and his wife whom he said to be his blood sister are not aware of the story. He added by saying their awareness will only ignite fire between him and the source, as he would do anything to fight the false allegation raised against his spiritual father, Prophet Nwachukwu. Enjoy the excerpts…
Please tell us your side of the on-going story
I wasn’t happy with your reputable magazine for not confirming a story before publishing it because I called your editor and told him if nothing is happening; then why is Top Celebrities Magazine writing on what does not exist. Somebody called to tell me on phone that I debunked the story, there’s nothing like that, and I told Ejiro Roman Adigbo, your publisher that I am going to take a legal action on the issue because what was published is a total rubbish. People have been calling me all over the nation about it and I told them I am going to arrest the editor so they can tell me where they got their information from and I’ve told our legal advisor in the church to write Top Celebrities Magazine and if we are not satisfied about the issue, we’ll go to court, I will bring Imeche who is the alleged woman’s husband so that people will know if we are truly fighting because the allegation says that I am at war with the man who is my lawyer-son, so how am I at war with my son? We believe that reputable magazine like yours should verify a story before you take celebrities like us to the world because I represent a lot of people, you have been into the service. It is not a church where only two or three people are gathered, so such things should be well investigated before going to the press. When you write such thing about me, are you doing it to divide the church or to defile the church?, when nothing like that is happening, the person you are talking about is my lawyer-son till tomorrow. If you know him, you can ask him because such thing does not exist.
If I take the magazine to the court and the man comes around to say there’s nothing like that, are we dragging any case again?, To my greatest shock and why I wasn’t happy with it, I’ve been getting calls from my bishop friends, PFN, my colleagues were asking and said this is a total rubbish that I must do something about it. At least, let the world know I dealt with the publication and the writer so that people will know that such thing does not exist, even there’s no rumour of it.
We are actually here to balance the story
[He cuts in] Let me help you, if you come in here now and for instance, somebody goes out to tell people that I slapped you; that you are crying seriously in the office now and somebody comes in here and sees you laughing with me, is there any need to ask you whether I slapped you or not.
What’s the true situation?
There’s not even any rumour on ground, what we are trying to say is that anybody that brought that story in the first place must face justice and I’ve already briefed my lawyer because whatever is on the internet is not our problem, anybody can write anything on the internet but our problem is who put it on paper. I have to clarify myself, what I am saying is that there’s no issue to clarify, there can never be any smoke without fire, there was not even fire let alone smoke. So debunking the rumour will only make the matter worse that I denied the allegation. I didn’t deny any allegation, there’s no allegation apart from what I saw in Top Celebrities Magazine so you people should tell us where you are getting your information from, that’s where I am heading to. I don’t want you people to write that I debunked the rumour, that I am clarifying myself. What I am saying is that we heard it from you, so where is it coming from, there’s no rumour.
What about other publishing companies?
[He cuts in] Front page, you sold it all over Nigeria that I snatched one of my members’ wife and my member is at war with me; that we are trying to kill each other, he is talking about Imeche (laughs, facing some of the pastors present in his office). That I snatched his wife, I took her away, she had a baby for me hiding somewhere and the man vowed to eliminate me and the war started two months ago, so as the matter is now, I’ve called my lawyer to commence a legal action on them. Now they sent their men to interview me, after interviewing me, they will go and write that Nwachukwu denied the allegation and there’s nothing like that to deny, that’s what I am saying. You see, I have respect for people, I have respect for every journalist, journalists are my friends. I am friendly with journalists, Classic Magazine saw it and brought it to this place to confirm if it’s real.
So what are you trying to make us understand?
Some pastors have failed and they are looking for who to attack, they can say anything through any means.
That’s why we are here
See, I read mass communication and I know what publications can do. After this interview, I know you will go and write ‘Prophet Nwachukwu denied the allegation’, it will appear as if you are trying to clear yourself and there’s nothing to clear.
I don’t think this is the proper time or place to start talking about this issue that does not exist, I thought you are here to interview me about my church programme, my forthcoming convention. I am not talking about whether I denied or alleged, I am not coming to that issue because it never existed, by denying that means I am aware of the incident which I don’t even know about, so you people should tell me how it happened.
How about the woman, Sally?
Is she around here now?
What kind of question is that?
Could I interview her?
If she is here, there’s nothing you can ask her and she’ll answer, let me just tell you the truth, the woman’s husband is the president of mega car dealers association. I am talking to you as a pastor, if I call him here and tell him that this is what you people wrote about us, you people cannot leave here, that’s the gospel truth. I don’t know if you are getting me clearly, I know you’re recording everything I am saying. I am trying to protect your interest, this is a church and won’t like anything to happen to you because he won’t take things lightly with you. I am a man of God, he is not a man of God, he is a businessman, if he discovers such things, I don’t think you’ll be allowed to leave, he’ll arrest you and make sure you produce the publisher and the story source. So calling the woman and calling the man will only make matters worse because I don’t think he is aware of what’s going on and if he sees it, the way I am taking the issue is not the way he is going to take it, the man has been with me for 10 years and the woman in question is my sister.
You mean Sally?
Yes, My blood sister.
That’s Madam Sally?
Yes, you said you even saw her yourself when you came into the church, so, this is a total nonsense, I don’t want to put you in trouble; that’s why I don’t want to bring the man in, so it’s better you forget about it and talk something else because it never exists.
I’ve been here for more than four to five hours
So did you enjoy the service?
Tell us about your ministry and the forthcoming convention.
Man of God, let’s start from today’s service, we witnessed lots of testimonies, what’s the secret behind this?
The secret is faithfulness to God as you can see that I am a prophet by calling and I am manifesting in my area of ministry, by the special grace of God we are here to lead people. Those people who saw giving testimonies I don’t know them, I’ve never met them in life, I don’t know them, you can see when I was asking them, so these are the things the Lord is doing here through the words of prophecy, we reveal who is behind their problems and we solve it. If I know that you people are around, I would have called one of you out and prophesy to him, Classic Magazine came here, I called one of them out, I told him everything about him and the man was shouting, even they wanted to put it into writing. So, God is working and we’ll still do more for the kingdom of God.
It’s never late to enjoy the anointing sir
Ok, no problem [Laughs].
At some point in time during the service while mummy G.O was addressing the congregation, she made mention of the word “God over do”, could you tell us the spiritual meaning of that?
She mentioned about “Jehovah overdo”
Yes “Jehovah overdo”
“Otokuna do, Jehovah over do” we are talking about what he does is beyond our expectations, you can be asking him for a baby and he’ll give you twins. I asked God for anointing because the ministry he gave me is beyond what I asked, he gave me anointing, he gave me prophecy, he gave me vision and the word, that’s why we call him Jehovah over do. I believe you enjoyed my sermon.
After the sermon, you didn’t know that there’s chapter two which is the prophecy, and I believe you enjoyed our worship and praises.
So, these are the things he does in our lives that makes us to call him Jehovah over do, the God of Otokuna does, Otokuna means God that speaks the word and brings it to pass. You can ask him oh! Lord, I need a car this December , he may give you a jeep and also give you a car. Has He overdone that, that’s why we call him Jehovah over do.
I want you to tell us how old is RHEMA and the motive behind the name RHEMA.
Well, RHEMA generally is 20years and the headquarters is in Anambra State but RHEMA Lagos should be 13years by December so the word ‘rhema’ is an Hebrew language. Rhema means the word of God, the spoken word of God. Like now, there was a prophecy that a son is given that government shall be upon his shoulder, that his name shall be called wonderful councillor, everlasting father, prince of peace. Before Jesus was born, the word ‘Rhema’ has been in existence. It is a spoken word that something shall be in existence and you can join it with prophecy, Rhema is like prophecy fulfilled, so that is the secret of the ministry.
I discovered you share some things in common with PROPHET CHRIS OKAFOR, in terms of prophecy and you also share the same title ‘ORACLE’. So, what is the connection between you and him?
It will interest you that I’ve been a prophet for five years before Chris Okafor.
Yes, before he came to Lagos to start, he started by imitating me, Number one, I was the one that released that word Otokuna do which everybody in Lagos knows. I said it for the first time in 2001 on MITV through NOYE OSY’s programme. In fact, even when I was preaching on MITV, Chris Okafor came there to meet me, NOYE OSY is a witness, you can interview her about it. He came to meet me and said that he loves my ministry and I welcomed him when I discovered we are from the same state, Anambra State, we became friends. So he started using all my slangs. If you are a media man here in Lagos, on TV, you will discover that we are the people that started preaching on Silverbird Television, the first time Silverbird Television started operating church programmes. I was one of the foremost ministers to preach through that platform in 2001 and that was where I mentioned for the first time, ‘ the God of otokuna do’ and they interviewed me and asked what is ‘otokuna do’. I explained it and later Okafor started using ‘otokuna do ’ and I said we are brothers in Christ. Also, people call me oracle because of the accuracy of my prophecy, so Chris Okafor now borrowed the same title ‘Oracle’. I have no problem with it, he is my friend and my brother, I said I started ‘Jehovah over do’ he borrowed it. I was the one that started ‘no shaking’ in Lagos State and everybody is now using ‘no shaking’, I have no problem with it. If you watch my captions in my programmes, I write “only a word from God will change your life” and Chris Okafor too started using the slang, so you will know I started ministry before him and he is still my brother.
Do you mean to say you groomed him?
There’s no way I can say I groomed him, I can’t even say I am fathering him or I groomed him but when somebody admires you and he is doing like you, you can’t stop him because that is his intentions, he admires what you are doing and he wants to be like you and as far as the kingdom of God is expanding and people are being liberated, I don’t have any problem with him.
What stands you out among other pastors?
I cannot stand to tell you that this one is fake and this one is real.
Ok, how do we differentiate?
But what you must know is this, anything that is not of God cannot stand the test of time, to know genuine men of God. Number one, their relationship with their wives, any man of God that is not close to his wife or relating with his family very well has question mark on his head, you can see my wife here, we relate, we talk and you saw her conducted the service but if you want to know those that are not genuine, their wife cannot be on the altar with them. Number two, they are not close to their family, I’ve always stayed with my family, my wife and my children. Anyone that wants to go far in the ministry must not be living a hotel life, many ministers are living a hotel life, from Monday to Sunday, they are living in the hotel, where are your children?, where is your house?, where do you stay?, which means it’s Sheraton hotel, that’s where some of them are living, you fly to Port Harcourt, you fly to Bayelsa, a hotel life, any prophet that is called of God, why should you be in Lagos, in Lagos, your family is in Lagos and he is living in the hotel, I don’t know if you are getting my point.
The next one is, any ministry that is built on falsehood, the man of God cannot be humble, if you want to meet him, they’ll make things difficult for you, they’ll block all doors, I believe you didn’t have any problem coming here to see me, men of God that have something to hide are not always free with people. I think you saw me flowing with my members, I am free with all of them. You are free to shake hands with me, if you want to hug me you can hug me, if I want to rebuke you I’ll rebuke you directly and not at your back, you must relate with your sheep like brothers and sisters because we are one family, the bible says in LUKE Chapter 2 verse 8 that while shepherds were watching over their flocks at night, the angel of the Lord came down, the shepherds were able to see the angels because they were awake, how many of us are still watching over our flocks in our churches, you must be close to your members, your members must be able to get you on phone. Everybody you see in this church has my direct phone line, none of my members will tell you ‘I dey try him number but I couldn’t get him, that is not me, you know why, there was a time I have so many security boys around me, not less than 15 of them following me. One day, the Lord said to me, with all these boys following you up and down, how can the sick touch you that if they were still following me now because by then I was in the world and blocking me here and there, can the woman with the issue of blood touch me?, I said no, he said, discard your security, I came that morning, my P.A can tell you, I called all of them and settled them, I gave some of them money to start business. I was left with my P.A and my CSO, I settled everyone and I they left. Since then if I am going to the church, if you want to touch me. you can touch me, you shake me, I’ll shake you.
A woman that comes to church with sickness and has the faith that immediately she touches me she’ll be healed and if she cannot touch you the sickness remains there. These prayers we are saying, we are not the one that answer.
How do you know false prophet, somebody who is ministering and sees a blind man and tells the congregation if this blind man did not see in this service, I will tear my bible and stop preaching, that man is fake and false. I want to clear you on this issue, why did I say so, my brother, your job is to pray for the blind man and is Jesus’ job to open the eyes of the blind man but by the time you tell us if this man did not see in this service, I’ll tear my bible and stop the gospel; it means you arranged it.
Did you get what I am saying? You see a lame man, my bible made it crystal clear that the man at the beautiful gate with the hand before the man could get up. Number two, the man was limping. Act chapter 3, the man was not walking, he was limping, look at me now (demonstrating it), the man was trying to balance before he was able to walk into the church. How do you know a false prophet, a false prophet is the one that sees somebody on wheel chair and prays for him. Immediately after praying, the man will jump up and start running, gentleman, no lame man can run. It\s like somebody that has never walked before, a little child will have to crawl, learn how to sit down first of all from sitting down you’ll crawl, from crawling, you’ll learn how to stand, from standing you’ll learn how to work. How can you heal a lame man on wheel chair and he started jumping, are you not watching television. Somebody was brought dead to some of this churches you are talking about, a man who died like yesterday and was brought to the church today, the man of God resurrected the person from death and he started jumping “am alive”, who told you, you died before. Medical science tells us that somebody who died yesterday by now has stiffed.
Jesus, before he resurrected Lazarus, you know what he did? Number three, how to know false prophet. Anybody you heal should tell us his name and the address he is living so that people that know the address can confirm. When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, people came to his family house to confirm what happened and glorified God, now can I talk to you?, The people we are healing today on wheel chair, blind, deaf and dumb. If you heal them today in the church, next Sunday you won’t see them in the church. Somebody that was healed today, a blind man in the church should at least come for testimony with his family, true or false?, Somebody that was able to walk for the first time should go for thanksgiving the next Sunday. I healed a man here who was paralyzed, who could not walk, the following Sunday his whole family filled here for thanksgiving, the man told people his address and now how many of these ones will tell us their addresses and names? You go to Abraka University, you go to Uniben and call hungry students there, pay them twenty, twenty thousand to come and perform miracle on them, that is madness.
When they are healed, ask them what is your name and address and people that are watching you on air should be able to confirm the address. Jesus did not heal Lazarus at the backyard, he healed him with evidence, people came and confirmed.
Today’s own are fake miracle workers and clamouring on things on television and if you are prophesying to people, I mean the real prophecy because some prophecies are also arranged, you will see the shock on the person you are talking to. My brother you don’t know me before and I mentioned your name, mentioned your village, the shock will grip you at least you saw a woman I prophesized to during service and she fainted. When you are prophesying to somebody, for example, God told me your name is Ifeanyi, you will see the shock, the person is not excited except if it is ‘arrangee’. Sometimes, I ask people, have you ever seen me in life?. There’s one man I prophesized to today, him and his wife are outside waiting for me there, they came here for the first time in their life, I mentioned the transport company where he is working, I asked if he has ever seen me in his life, you can interview him on your own separately if I had known him anywhere before, that is prophecy. If you are watching your TV and you see prophets prophesying, tune the channel elsewhere. Any prophet prophesying to somebody and not asking him ‘have you met me before?’ is fake.
How come your brothers are also pastors?
You know for by strength shall no man prevail, I would not say that it is hereditary, because the hereditary something is what moves around the family, probably what you inherited from your father or your mother.
We didn’t inherit it from our father, it was grace. About three years ago, I was in Israel. I was very eager to go to the house of David, in fact, one of the greatest things that made me to visit Israel was to go and see the house of David, the David of the bible. Immediately I arrived, I chartered a vehicle and I told the driver, “take me to David’s kingdom”, the man said that it’s close, I said just take me there. When I got there, I was looking around and trying to confirm what I read in the bible. The gate is open and everybody is welcome. At the entrance I saw at the gate, I saw a crown, I saw guitar, I saw bow and arrow. I went in and met somebody there and asked if this is the house of David of the bible? He said. Yes, you are welcome. I saw a young man and I said I want to know about your grandfather, David he laughed and say I should sit down, I sat down. They are very lovable people, he said do I need any drink, I said yes I would drink, why shouldn’t I drink, have I been here in my life, eating in the house of David is a credit to me. I told him and said I read about your father in the bible, he said yes that his father told him how their grandfather was a king, a warrior and a musician, he was referring to David as their grandfather. David gave birth to a son and his son gave birth to a son, I am sure they are in the third generation now.
I asked him why this bow, guitar and crown at the gate he said they are symbols of their father, that their father was a warrior, a musician and at the same time a king. My brother, my head just swelled up.
I asked him who is the governor of this place, it was Judah I went to because I’ve learnt that the governor of Judah will be from the family of David forever and ever, that was in the bible that the generation of David should occupy the throne of Judah and I know Israel to be a democratic government and I said how can people not contest election in Judah, so I was told, in the constitution of Israel that nobody should be the governor of Judah apart from the son David. My brother, that was when I learnt how to sow seeds. I now asked, what is the secret that will make this thing stand in your family forever, he said it’s because of the seed their father sowed by building the temple which God said your son should build for me and the throne of Judah should be for your generation forever, my brother, my mentality just changed. You know why I am sowing seeds? You laugh at me when I said some people live in my house, free of charge, about four houses free of charge. I am sowing seeds for my son and my generation.
That those people I am helping for the past eight years, ten years, each year am supposed to realize over one million naira from the rent but I gave it out free so that God can give my son seeds and my generation, that’s the secret of my sowing.
If David can only give God money for the building of the temple and God said you should occupy this throne for life; it means God is still giving people the lead to that direction and I found out from my father in 1986 in Abakaliki, Number 14, Origide Street, Abakaliki. My father was the revenue officer of Abakaliki Local Government under Anambra State Government then, then Anambra, Enugu, Ebonyi are the same thing. One day my father gave my mother money to make food, there were some evangelists that came for crusade, they lodged in the next compound. My father instructed my mother to make food for them as God has instructed him. Beloveth, do you know that these people have not eaten from morning till afternoon when we took the food to them and also they’ve been stranded. When they saw the food, they shouted as if somebody scored goal in a football tournament, I was the one that carried the cooler of rice on my head and drinks with my brother, Chidozie. By the time we dropped the food, they shouted “praise the Lord”, I was shocked, by then I was 12 years old. I started wondering why these people were shouting.
When we brought the food, they told my father that if it’s the true God that sent them to this town, “your children will be marked as people of God”. They prayed for my father and not up to one month, my father was promoted to be the treasurer of the Local Government. As if that is not enough, within the following month my father started a storey building in the village and finished it within two months. As if that is not enough, I passed my WAEC with distinction including my brothers and there was massive breakthrough in our family then. My father said to us that it’s the seeds he sowed that brought all the goodness in the family. My father told them then that till they leave Abakaliki, he will be feeding them till their crusade in Abakaliki is over, the day they were leaving, they came to our house to pray and later God called my father and told him “I have given you the covenant of salt, that all your children shall be ministers”. My father said to God that we may not be convinced, he should tell us himself. In 1992, God gave me the revelation, RHEMA started in 1993’. We finished bible school in 1992 and founded ‘RHEMA’ in 1993. My brother in the university started joint campus fellowship for all Pentecostals in the school to be fellowshipping under GRACE OF GOD HOUSE FELLOWSHIP. He is the founder of GRACE OF GOD CAMPUS FELLOWSHIP.
And myself has been into importation immediately after school, I have a big shop then, I was importing from Brazil, during all these things I was very okay. One day my father called me and said God spoke to him that all his children will be ministers, as he was saying it, I was laughing in my heart, when he finished I told him Dozie is now into Campus Fellowship which he founded and now I am making money. Let me use my money to sponsor all of you, all of us not fit be pastor. Personally, I am a professional guy man, I don’t believe I could be a pastor because the pastors I saw in those days, I won’t call them failures but they were not impressing me. My father was the treasurer of the Local Government, Pastors come to our house to beg for money, their children’s school fees and house rent and I said to my father, so if I become a pastor, I’ll be going to people’s houses to beg for alms. You see they wear shoes with dust, they come into our parlour with it and I won’t be happy, the moment they leave, my father will ask you to sweep the parlour. I now said to myself, is this the kind of pastor he wants me to be?, My father still insisted that God told him all his children are pastors, I laughed and returned to my business.
To my greatest surprise while I was still doing my business, I came to the office one day and I discovered the interest of business was no longer in me, at age 20 I was already driving a 505 car, girls will be running after me, I will be laughing at them because I don’t have women interest. My interest is to do guy, package myself and dress clean and neat. Because I was very Godly, people come to my shop, complaining their problems because I was doing well, I said to them what you need is prayer because I was born again. They’ll say pray for me and I’ll pray, they’ll go and later come back to testify that what I prayed for them about has been done, do you know that people started bringing their friends to my shop so I could pray for them.
As at 1994, when I got to the shop, I’ll see everywhere filled with people waiting for me at my shop, I said what’s all this nonsense, my father is a pastor, go and meet the man. Let him pray for you, they’ll say no, your prayer is working for us.
I had an encounter, my father collected loan from the bank for me to import some goods after I used it and return the money to the bank. I couldn’t sleep one night, I had a terrible encounter when God said to me if you don’t stop business, I’ll deal with you, by the time I woke up it was a dream but seems like somebody was talking to me direct. I couldn’t go to shop. The next day, I told my father about the experience and said to me that it’s the voice of God calling me to surrender to him. I left angrily back to Onitsha. I had no choice than to start the calling, I started from my parlour at number 31, Ibogun Street, Onitsha. I said to myself, how can I do this job and to confirm the calling, I told God if you want me to do this job, you must give me the anointing different from what others have and he said to me, son, if you are faithful to me I’ll be faithful to you. On Sunday, I told people to come and worship with me in one memorial grammar school, Okari, Onitsha, I said I want to open my church there. To my greatest surprise, on Sunday I saw up to 50 people waiting for me in the hall. Immediately they saw me, they started clapping hands, I call the place my Onitsha branch.
This was how it started, the next Sunday we were about 150.
The news went about town that this guy is more powerful than his father o.
Is your father a pastor?
My father was a bishop, so we were increasing, up to about 200. My wife, you see here joined me with her mother, her mother brought her to my church because they were hearing testimonies, I didn’t know her before and when she came she joined my choir in Onitsha then. My father came to the church, when he saw what was happening there he started weeping. I told him I and God have to settle that he called me now to leave my business, give me ‘ifejepemo naka’ which means, give me a unique anointing that I don’t want to be a pastor that begs people to come for their self liberation. My wife was in my church, I converted her whole family to my church members and my church started waxing stronger as my father’s headquarters. My father’s headquarters is 15 minutes drive from my church. Then in 1995, I entered bible school and I graduated at Cornerstone University, Enugu. After graduation, I was ordained by my father and Bishop Popajie and later Bishop Benson Idahosa came to my father’s church and told my father that he wants to see all his sons, we all went before him, he laughed and said, these boys you see the whole world will hear their voice, it’s on tape. I’ll play it on LTV8 maybe this week. Idahosa said he has travelled to about 107 countries in the world. That what he saw in Rhema; he has never seen it elsewhere. He touched my head and said “this one, the kind of prophecy he will give many people will misunderstand his ministry”. He said I should not relent, that there’s something he saw in me, I laughed, it’s on tape, I’ll play it. He prayed for my father and prayed for all of us.
Late 1999, I came to this town to start the ministry at suite 311, Kalashe restaurant inside radio complex. I started with two people there, I don’t know if am taking your time so I can shorten it.
No, No, No, you can carry on sir.
The place is owned by Commodore Amushe’s wife of the Nigerian Navy, I rented it. You know I said I had about 1000 members in Onitsha and here in Lagos now, I am having only two people, I spread posters around that we are here now upon all I see only two people. My brother, I was discouraged. In fact, the worst part of it is that, there was a church opposite my church called KING OF KINGS, they have quality speakers, when the man shouts Halleluyah, the noise will fill my church and I was using this megaphone they use in selling ota pia pia [All laughed].
I couldn’t afford good sound instruments then and when new members come to my church, the following Sunday I’ll see them in the man’s church. I was in the midst of mighty people. The man that gave me one room at 28, Lateef Adegboyega Street, Okota will come around then, that time I used to see Pastor Oyakhilome preaching on TV. He’ll shout pastor! Is your type of pastor, Oyakhilome, I’ll say my friend, don’t insult me, my time is coming.
One day I realized my rent had expired, I was thinking where will I get the money to pay for another rent.
So I was sleeping inside the church at trade fair, the church is a bar and not a hall, an open bar where people drink, so if we have service, I’ll pack the tables after they close by 4pm. I’ll have to pack the bottles and tidy up things. The worst aspect of it was that two of my members were coming to church one evening and they collected their bags at under bridge, very close to my church. That time I had about 10 members, out of 10, they robbed four, would they come again? [All Laughed].
A man said to me that there’s hotel opposite under bridge that I should go there, that am going to get a good accommodation there, so I went and inquired, they told me it’s N1000 for one hour, short time and I said let me see the manager, I told the manager that am a pastor, my church is at Trade Fair here. I want you to give me this place at the rate of N500, he agreed and I paid N15,000 for one month.
Under two weeks, a woman I prayed for paid for full flat for me, free of charge, two years. My brother I don get flat at No 5, Abatti Street, Satellite Town, Abule Ado Bus Stop. Why am giving you the address to these places is for you to know that what I am telling you is the way it is. When you are saying something without evidence, it’s not real.
I paid for my church at Trade Fair and we grew up to 100 because God was using me for people there. I prophesized into their lives and the next Sunday they came for testimony. The place got filled that I started looking for land at Adanla Close No 1, Okokomaiko, Pako Bus Stop. A plot of land, I rented it for one year and people started coming, my name was everywhere, both those who are saying good and those who are saying bad I don’t care because I am moving forward and later the place got filled up and I started looking for where I can get my own land, I got one acre here but I don’t have the money to pay when I got it, the Redeemed Christian Church of God nearly capsized my boat. When I came to pay for this place, it was sold by a Muslim and he said to me he needs cash and carry while we don’t even have the demanded amount. I called the man and told him ‘Oga, I can pray for you o, you are having diabetes, and your daughter in the U.S called Bose has a problem of fruit of the womb, the man said how did you know, I told him am a prophet, that is why I am telling you to help me. The man just said go and take the land and give me whatever you have, be my pastor. The week we came with the money, the man rejected it and that’s how I got the place.
How did you meet your wife?
By 2001, I decided to marry, I asked God to show me my wife and God said to me, go back to your church in Onitsha, that girl in the choir is your wife, he showed her to me in the dream. If she’s here you can ask her, there was a national convention at the headquarters and God said again ‘this is your wife’. I called her and told her straight that I want to marry her, she can even tell you, I told her that I want to come and see her people the next day. She told me I should give her time to think about it and I said no thinking, no praying, just tell me YES or NO. She said no problem and I said am coming to see her parents the next day. The next day I landed in her house and later I got back to Lagos and told everybody that I am now married. If the girls in my church then were 100, about 20 left [All laughed]. We went back to the east and got married properly but there was a problem, the two years for my house rent don expire and the owner of the house said he wants to sell the house, he is no more renewing the rent. Nowhere to live and no money, I don’t even know when our landlord sold the duplex to a criminal who gave me seven days to pack my things out. The kind of people you see in the compound, you won’t like to meet them, every night, India hemp, you’ll see smoke everywhere like plane crash site.
I told my wife we have to look for a place and she said where are we going, I said God will help us. There was a day I went to buy my wife some stuffs, I met an old friend and I explained my problem to him, the man said where he stays is very close to me, he said he had four rooms and he is the only one living there that I should come and take two rooms free of charge. The same day, I and my wife moved to that apartment. My church was growing very well. Then I travelled to Okah to preach, there I met one foremost musician called Morocco Maduka, I prophesized to him that he has been looking for opportunity to travel abroad to play, I told him God spoke to me he is going to get that Visa, he said Amen. After he got it, he gave me N500,000 and became a member of my church till date.
I came back to Lagos to look for where I can get land to build my own house, somebody directed me to where I can get the land. I was told the ones available is three hundred thousand per plot, I told the man, can I buy this land for N250,000? He said no, it’s three hundred last, I told him I am a pastor o, if I live in this area you will enjoy me o, you are sick o and God is going to use me to heal you o, you have cancer o. the man asked how I manage to know he has cancer and I said am a prophet, he said abeg, give me the money. I paid two fifty under two months. I built house at No 6, Adeoye Ayetoro, both sides three rooms and parlour with big compound. I and my wife now became a landlord. The next thing was where our church will be, we left Okokomaiko and built this place temporarily. In one of our conventions, the structure we built fell on top of our members during convention. People started spreading the news that 50 people died in my church, I used their blood to do the foundation of my church land. SUN news paper came here to investigate, I told them it’s true the building fell but there was no causality except for those who sustained minor injuries. In 2009, I decided to take the bull by the horn, I built here just as it is, people said I carried drugs. I got my breakthrough in South Africa. I went to South Africa to preach and God gave me serious breakthrough there. I prophesised to the wife of the president in a meeting I had with her and the result was very powerful, so I built this structure and you can see how God has been helping us.
Concerning the 20 years Anniversary, what are we expecting?
We are preparing seriously, all our branches will be here, it’s going to be a week of prophetic carnival, I’ll be preaching there for two days, all my five blood brothers will be participating including my sister.
Why is it that some ministers of God do not like each other?
Why ministers of God are against each other?, My brother, if somebody is not doing well in his own area of ministry and you are doing well being close to him, are you expecting him to celebrate you before his members, what he will do is to be castigating you so the little members he has will not leave and join you, are you getting it, anybody who is a success in the ministry doesn’t have time for criticism, let me give you an example. There’s an organization called PFN, Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria. Several times they called me for meeting, I’ve refused to go, I attended the meeting once and I saw what they are doing there. Anybody that wants to go far in life must choose what he wants in life, you must be focused, when you gather in an organization and you’re blackmailing those that are doing well. Speaking blasphemously that men of God are using charm to attract people to church, if charm can bring people to church, my brother, show me where I can get my own, I need it. Many people have been here and asked me about T.B Joshua, they’ll say he is not a true man of God, is he a fake prophet, are those miracles he does approved by God?, and I asked the man, you and T.B Joshua, who is better than each other?, he replied me and said T.B Joshua, I said so why are you talking nonsense telling me Joshua is not real, he is a devil and all that. When the man was leaving he begged me for transport fare. I said if you are serving a living God and T.B is serving a fake God, then why are you begging for transport fare. You know what the bible says, it says, allow the weed and the tides to grow, when the owner of the farm comes, he will separate the bad from the good.
Why should I stress myself thinking about T.B Joshua. Just as I am here now and I don’t have that type of his anointing that he delivers a woman who has been pregnant for four years by just doing his hand like this, if T.B calls me now as I am talking to you and say Anene Nwachukwu, hello, am T.B Joshua, come I want to give you the anointing that will make a woman deliver quickly. I will call all of you to wait for me at the gate. I am not going to go in secret, I will go and collect it. I know the ones I have, I know the ones I don’t have, okay? T.B can make the deaf hear immediately without arrangement, I’ve seen a woman on television with three years pregnancy, she’s a member of Pentecostal church, her pastor discouraged her from going to T.B Joshua, she refused because if you have a goat in the house and you refuse to feed the goat and somebody with palm tree come across the goat, what do you think will happen, the woman saw palm tree and went to Synagogue. I watched it live when T.B did his hand this way and the baby was delivered in the church.
Are you trying to question how he did that?, if he calls me here now that I should come and collect that type of anointing, I will even advertise it on air that press men would carry the news. People should stop spreading rumours, what you don’t have, you don’t have, what you don’t appreciate will depreciate in your life. Pastors talk against him because they don’t have what the man has. How many times have you seen Oyedepo criticizing anybody, how many times have you seen Adeboye criticizing anybody, am asking you, all these top men, how many times have you seen them criticizing, they mind their business.
But you’ll see all these pastors with one trouser, those ones their landlords have given quit notice, those pastors you see criticizing others are tenants in rented apartment and they don’t have good cars, they are speaking out of frustration. As am here now, I’ve not spoken about any pastor in my church, last three weeks Sunday, I warned my members not to buy CDs where Lord’s Chosen ministry was blasphemed, I don’t know if you are getting me, and other ones talking about T.B Joshua that he is an Anti-Christ, all these rubbish, I told my members, don’t buy them. Those who are talking rubbish are what…nonsense. The woman talking against Chosen that she was former Chosen Mopol, I think she was selling some things in that church until they stopped her not to sell within the church, that’s when she discovered Chosen was an agent of darkness. People should learn to say things the way it is.
Let me give you an example, a woman came to my church to collect house rent from me, five hundred thousand, I said madam, I’ll give you a hundred thousand but she stopped coming to my church with her family. By the time I’ll hear of her, she said that she discovered that I am using python spirit to prophesize, because I did not give her five hundred thousand for house rent.
At the inception of this ministry, has there been a point in time you felt like quitting?
In my widest imagination, there’s was no time I thought of quitting this job in my life, I don’t think that there’s any other thing I can do than this job. I started this job when there was nothing coming in for us and we still celebrate. My brother said to me sometime ago that did I remember that when we started this work, we did not start it in order to drive cars, we didn’t enter it to build houses, we entered because we are convinced that God called us, we suffered for this work and in the course of our suffering, God started blessing us. I used to say that am not here in this church to collect money from people, that’s the gospel truth because as I am here now, I have American Visa, I have visa to access anywhere in the world. I am more celebrated out there than here. If I announce now that I am coming to the U.S, my brother, road no go go, this man here can tell you, he is in London. For the past 10 years, he’s been looking for me to come to his church. I was in U.S last month, I closed down the street of New York, people were surprised and said “on this earth?”, they nearly mobbed me in New York because the crowd was huge.
Do you engage in other business apart from ministerial jobs ?
I have no single business apart from this job, I don’t have any shop anywhere and I don’t even have any source of income apart from the word of God that comes out from my mouth, people are blessing me through the word.
What can you say of the crisis in the country?
The crisis in the country is politically motivated, God must intervene in this country, you know why?, this country belongs to all of us, the man there ‘Jonathan’ whom they are trying to push away, who do you think will do better after Jonathan?.
I am not blowing anybody’s trumpet, I am not an agent of Jonathan but I think the man should be allowed to do his job for now until next election, Nigerians should decide if he will continue or not than to be making things difficult for him, all these Boko Haram, bombing, terrorist attack and the rest of them is not giving us a good image. I believe the president knows those who are behind this terrorism attacks and he should use all our security agencies like SSS, Navy, Air force and others.
The SUN newspaper carried it in front page two months ago that Boko Haram members should be sentenced to death by firing squad. I put on the SUN paper that they should be sentenced by firing squad, am not afraid to say it. These are pure terrorists, everyday they kill people and we clap hands for them, they bomb churches and you’ll take them to court, it pains me when I see these men go to court, they should be wiped out. After I said it, some people called me on phone to warn me I should know the way I talk, I said go and sit down. If am Jonathan my brother, I’ll flush them out because we know who they are. If America did not kill Osama Bin Laden, what do you think will happen now?.