The presiding Bishop of Wordbase Assembly, Ago, Lagos, Dr. Humphrey Ojinduka Urunwa Erumaka, was born to the family of Elder Johnson Erumaka, from Amibo Ubakala Umuahia South Local Government Area of Abia State. Trained under the tutelage of Assemblies of God (AG) church’s doctrines, where his father was an elder, his life was structured towards the vineyard. No wonder, he traversed several corridors of powers to become a world known preacher and Christian book writer. In this interview with ORUKPE NELSON, he spoke on his early marriage to Rev. Huldah Erumaka and blessed with three wonderful kids, ministry and other issues.

There is a fear that Moslems and Boko Haram are trying to Islamise the country, going by their conditions for the release of the Chibok girls, and their hostile activities to the churches in the north; do you think this would come to fruition?

There is nothing to be scared of. Anybody, who knows what I know of the Word of God, would not be moved by the sight of what is happening in the country now. But with the ordinary man, who moves by sight, might have a feeling that it would happen.

Every Christian has a Kingdom in him and that kingdom cannot be destroyed or stopped because it has a rock in it. The kingdom, according to the book of Daniel is in the Christ, ‘the Rock.’ And that rock, was cut out but not by human hands and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and the smashed them. That is Christ in the church.

And Christ said He will build His church and the gate of hell will not prevail. Anybody who is thinking that by killing Christians, he would wipe away Christianity in Nigeria, is making a terrible mistake because the blood of innocent Christians spilled on the land is speaking.

We are not fighting with our hands, but the Rock is falling on them. For instance, what happened in Kaduna is to make the churches in the town to close down but it has not happened as they anticipated. Each of the churches destroyed by Boko Haram was rebuilt greatly. The Catholic Church that was bombed first in Kano is better attended now.

They think they are contending with the man, but Christianity has done well in the north because the blood of the innocent is speaking. So, they better know it that the church cannot be subdued for anything.

Reignhard Bonke came to the North, yet the killing didn’t stop him. Have they been able to stamp out Christianity, even as their children are catching the revelation of Christ and leaving Islam for Christianity.?

Even among them, the Moslems fighting the Christians are changing. Paul’s mission was to go and wipe out the Christians, but he later became co-hunters. There is a kingdom that cannot be destroyed in the life of every Christian.

The weapon of our welfare is not canal, but mighty in the Lord to pulling down the stronghold of enemies. My approach to this is prayer, negotiation and dialogue. The Christians should not join them in the destruction. As a result of this problem, the economy of the North is badly affected today.

As it is now, they have begun to kill their own people, their emirs and politicians because the God of the Christians, is the God that turned Philistines against themselves and that is what is happening now.

You don’t attack a spirit with the same spirit. You don’t overcome pride by being proud. You don’t fight evil with evil too.

Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala once said that spending on the insurgency in Nigeria would not affect the county’s budget, but $1billion Federal Government loan to battle insurgency is likely to affect the budget, what is your take on this?

Well, that statement was made too early in the day but when the reality came up she would reverse what she said. The Finance Minister is not a spirit. The government should strategise.

There is a controversial recommendation at the on-going confab, bothering on churches and tax payment; what is your position on this proposal?

You said it was a controversial recommendation, when they determine that, we will see. I hope they are not looking at church offerings and tithes because that would amount to double taxation.

They are forgetting that the people, who pay the money, would have paid their individual taxes. I pay my tax and in Lagos State you should have your tax clearance for so many things.

All these are borne out of envy. We don’t go back to the government to bring the money in their purse because they are for developmental project; likewise, church money is for the work of God. Let them not be deceived that if they tax churches, their income would drop. If they start it, God will create avenue to raise money for the church.

Do you believe that a pastor should work to avoid distortion to non negotiable facts in the work of God?

If the work load on the congregation is high, pastor can work to take care of himself and congregation. God approved tent-making approach in the church. Paul was a tent-maker, builder but he didn’t make tent within all congregation.

There are some congregations that were able to meet his needs that he didn’t bother to do any other thing. So, a preacher is trained as to be strong to act as the situation warrants. As a preacher, I also write books and publish books to earn my income too.

Preacher ‘does no wrong’ is in the minds of many people, could you share with us in few occasions where you were tempted to do what you would otherwise, not do?

It depends on the impression one has created. People, who are faking would give you an impression that they can’t do wrong, but that’s wrong. That’s not the scripture. The scripture says if any man is overtaken by temptation, let him be restored.

God sent a man from heaven in form of John. Ordinarily, Bible would have said, God sent a John from heaven and He said this glory have I hidden in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not us.

Excellency belongs to God and the preacher is a man. It is expected that by what the preacher knows, he would not to be dabbling and fumbling. But there are possibilities that he is tempted to do wrong.

So, it’s a wrong approach that many preachers have come up with the belief that they do no wrong but those under my ministration, know that it’s improper to say so. If I miss it, I will say I have missed it because I’m human.

As a Christian and general overseer of a church, what were the challenges that you faced that almost made you quit the ministry?

I may not be able to isolate it, but one thing I know is that the challenges are some of the things one faces when one’s right intention for something is not misunderstood. In communication, it would be a case of translation.

When you set to do something, most people believe that the original reason you gave them for it is never the reason behind the motive. Most times, they feel you do those things based on personal gains or something else, while deep in your heart, you are labouring to make it happen.

For instance, if you are talking about expanding this church, some people would be saying do we need to expand the church? But in actual fact, some people would know that this is worth doing but others will be saying he wants to expand his kingdom.

Also, you will be happy to attend to everybody problems, as a pastor over them, but it’s quite frustrating that after they have told you their problems, most times, you can’t change the situation. It’s only what God wants that will prevail.

Choice of whom to marry is a major apprehension among Christians, and you just marked your 24^th marriage anniversary, how did you meet your wife, perhaps, someone would learn from your experiences?

I got married quite early, when I was about 26 years old. The reason being that at 22, my ministry had blossomed and had international exposure. I was holding conferences, especially with the youth wing of Assemblies of God and several other big ministries.

Then, my pastor, who loved me much expressed some fear, saying that he wouldn’t want stories from me, given that I go to campuses to conduct programmes. So, that brought about the urgency of my marriage in 1990.

Now, on how I met her, in a secondary school, I served her elder brother, who was my friend. Her brother saw me and liked me and approached me to be his boy and I served him well. In the course of serving him, I saw his sister and amazingly, when it was time to marry, she was the one that came to my heart.

So, I went to her and she told me outright that she wasn’t interested. She said God had spoken to her that she is going to marry a minister of the gospel because she is a pastor’s daughter. Also, when the father died, the mother laid hand on her and prayed that she should continue the father’s ministry.

Meanwhile, she didn’t know me beyond being a journalist, but when I told her that I have a ministerial calling, but wasn’t sure if I would go into it full-time or not, then, she said, “If you are a preacher of gospel, I will marry you.” Then I was an evangelist.

On how to go about it, I have done more of praying before going to meet her. It wasn’t a case of trying luck. I was almost convinced that she is the one. And I have watched from distance, the issues in her life that I can cope with and the ones I can’t before I was convinced she was the one I can live the rest of my life with.

But then, marriage and everything that comes from God is by faith. You wouldn’t know it all and you wouldn’t conclude it all. But if you are a good man, there are tendencies that you would attract a good woman and marry well. A lot of bad people want to marry a good wife and vice versa, but it wouldn’t work.

I don’t know if I should disagree with you on that. If that assertion is right, the level of breakups among the Christians shouldn’t be?    

I’m not saying in absolute sense. There may be subtraction but generally, God is not unrighteous to pay good for evil. It’s just that. I know some young men that are rough and they want to marry good wives.

Every day, they are at night club and they end up with girls over there. So, how many good ladies would you find at night clubs. Most at times, marriage is just a mind set. If you make up your mind to marry, you will remain married but if you move into marriage on trial, trying to see if it will work, you will find reasons for it not to work.

I’m disappointed when Christian marriages fail. It boils down to lack of understanding of the gospel. They don’t even understand what love is and how Christ loves us. We have messed up so much and he still loves us unconditionally.

Christian marriages should be based on that Christ’s love. Christians have forgotten that in marriage, the spouses are covenant partners. And because the other person broke its covenant is not a reason for the others to break their own covenant. That is the love Jesus Christ is talking about and that is the love that binds the marriages. Christians should know this.

How did you propose to your wife when you were convinced she was the one that your heart yearned for?

I just told her I want to marry her and she said she was going to pray about it and later got back to me that she had accepted my proposal. I didn’t kneel down, anyway. I didn’t even have an engagement ring when I proposed to my wife.

So, I didn’t even have an engagement ring when I proposed until we got married at the altar. We are both born again Christians, tongue talking, spirit filled, when we got married.

Was it because you couldn’t afford a ring or you thought it wasn’t necessary to do that with a ring?

No, as at that point in time, I knew the ring would always come but what I needed that time was an answer.

Most preachers are busy people, and in most cases, their wives complain, do you have time to go out for fun with your wife?

Yes, I do that. Last week Monday was my 24^th wedding anniversary. We didn’t go out but we stayed together at home and drank our kind of nonalcoholic wine. Yes, we traveled out together. So, I find time to take my wife out.

Spare the rod and spoil the child: Did you ever feel your parents never loved you by those corrective beatings they meted out to you as a growing child?

Yes, normally those days, you think they didn’t like you and they were being harsh on you; but then, they were doing the right thing. For me in particular, I have a mum that did the flogging but my father would only pull your ears and talk. But my mother would flog and that struck a balance.

My mother could flog you without explaining in details why she flogged you but my father would call you and asked if you knew why you were flogged and explained to you.

I believe in not sparing the rod. I flog my children when it’s absolutely necessary, especially when I have warned the person and given it as a promise. So, when he does it, I will flog him so that he wouldn’t say that daddy promised and failed.

What are your recreational activities?

I’m not much a man of recreation but at my spare time, I watch television for special programmes like documentaries, discovery world; animal channels, discovery channels, crime TV, court issue.

Also, on the physical fitness side, I have a health rider in my room and I also take a walk. But the issue I have taking a walk is that, when anyone sees you on the road walking, they would want to give you a ride without knowing that you are on exercise. Such is Nigerian environment!

Your favourite meal is what?

White rice and stew with chicken but in the absence of chicken, I make do with fish.

What is your fashion life like?

In terms of dressing, I’m simple. I believe in wearing what makes me simple and comfortable. I wear a lot of suits. Wear clothes of various kinds but less of Agbada and bulky garments. You have to look good.

How freak are you with perfumes?

I wear so many perfumes. I don’t wear a particular one. I wear brut and a number of others.

What type of jewelries make you feel good?

Jewelry is jewelry. I wear bangles, wrist watches, gold and silvers too.

How many hours do you give to sleep at night?

I usually go to bed between 11pm and 12 mid night but wake around 5a.m. It still depends on what I’m doing and that determines when I get out off the bed.

Where did you acquire your formal education?

I started my primary school education at the Niger Diocese Primary School and completed it at Methodist Primary School Apapa, Lagos in 1976. I returned to South East again for my secondary school education at Evangel High School, Old Umuahia, where I earned my West African School Certificate in 1981.

In 1985, I concluded my training as a journalist with emphasis in Advanced Writing and International Relations at the Nigerian Institute of Journalism, Lagos, before proceeding for Advanced Leadership Training Institute at Oral Roberts University, Oklahoma, USA. I hold other Diplomas in administrative Management and Conflict resolution.

What short message would you drop for the country?

In anywhere we find ourselves, let us avoid this canker worm of greed. Greed is destroying this nation and it’s only when we shun greed that Nigeria would be saved.