Former governor of Ogun State, Otunba Gbenga Daniel has continued to be more active in political scene even after leaving office. He spoke on burning political issues in this interview with Ejiro Roman-Adigbo. Excerpts…

How is your case with the EFCC?

According to the laws of the land, when the matter is in the court, you can hardly comment, but one can pass a few comments in such a way that one is a little bit cautious. If you remember, all the charges of the EFCC emanated from Tunde Oladunjoye. Tunde became the chairman of Ijebu-East Local Government under my governorship and there was a crisis in Ijebu-Ife and people can still remember. On that occasion, a police commissioner; Omolodun by name was murdered in cold blood, I rushed down there and found out that he was not just murdered but had been actually burnt. I saw it with my two eyes. I was in Omo at a service on that fateful day with Chief Obasanjo in the church, I had to tell him because it was an Owu event to see what was going on; while I was doing that, I called the Council Chairman to find out if he was already there and told me he is there that there is no cause for alarm, but by the time I got there he was not there. We got there, only to find out that it was mayhem. As a matter of fact, the Oba said to me that once they killed the police commissioner, the whole town was in trouble because the Oba was expecting that before the day breaks, the police will act and wipe out the place as it were, so I moved in and pleaded with all the policemen, I had to do the necessaries. I went round the place and told them that I have seen the houses that were burnt but told the policemen that if I come back the following day and see more burnt houses, I will hold them responsible, that was how we salvaged the situation. It was in that regards we had to set up an enquiry and the enquiry indicted Tunde Oladunjoye and I had no choice than to remove him as chairman. So, that was the reason why he felt I also did something, he then wrote a petition. Of course, if you could remember what was going on in Ogun State at that time, the arrows were just flying from all corners; my brothers from The Nation, PM News, Punch, etc but I don’t know why. OBJ was firing his own arrow, Dimeji Bankole was firing his own arrow and somebody called Buruji Kashamu too was firing his own arrow and I didn’t know my offence.

Once upon a time, there was a state called Ogun, nobody went there; we all stayed in Lagos, I had a business here but God gave us the grace we went there and opened up the place, so they were amazed and the battle started. That is the summary of what went wrong and is indeed an irony.

However, the petition stated it was a 16-count charge that I stole three million dollars; first it was one, later they said it was three and that I stole maybe eight or nine billion naira of local government funds. It was news to me because I was detained for 10 days and I was wondering what exactly went wrong. While I was in detention, I stopped reading newspapers because I was annoyed. By the time I came out of detention, I saw that it was even N57 billion that was reported over the place that I have stolen. When they refused to release me, I threatened to go on hunger strike, that if they had nothing to do with me, they should take me to court because the truth of the matter is that at the time they arrested me, there was nothing against me. It was after they arrested me that they started investigation, but the law said within 24 hours or 48 hours you must give somebody a bail, you are keeping me for 10 days, so take me to court, that was when I was brought to court with all the count charges. However, I called my Finance Commissioner and I asked him where is the 3million dollars, he said they are crazy; there is no 3million dollars anywhere; in fact, it is the money which was part of the debt recovered, that the money is in FCMB; “when we were broke on one occasion, you authorized that I should take 1million naira to pay salary and then another 2million naira to clear salary, I didn’t even touch the money, it’s in FCMB, they changed the money and they credited the account, the domicile account was in FCMB, the naira account was also in FCMB. So, it’s just a matter of confirmation, so FCMB from the dollars that you have, could you change this and credit our account. I asked for the proof and they gave it to me, not only was it changed, I checked the rate of exchange whether there is any game and there was no game because the rate of exchange was exactly the rate at that point in time.

The tragedy that we had, simply because OGD must be nailed at all cost, even when those facts and figures became available, the media did not carry the news. So, that is the story of the dollars.

I will tell you that in my eight years as governor, I did not touch the local government allocations. I didn’t touch a single dime.

To cut the long story short, they have to pause all of the charges at that point in time. Later, another round of investigation started, at that time Gov. Amosun had set up his land enquiry and then stories started flying that I had stolen lands in Ogun State. In the course of stumbling on documents, he ran into one of my lawyers who has been registering companies for me for the past 20 years, he stumbled on some companies and said this company was registered and belongs to OGD, he didn’t declare it. I said which company, the company that I had never done business with, I never knew whether it existed. So, that was a set of another allegation. While I was with EFCC, they gave me a form and asked me to declare my assets and I said in this dungeon that you put me, to declare my assets, I am not a man of one or two houses under this tension that you put me, how do you expect me to remember. After battling for three days they started pleading with me that they are just doing their job, I said but statutorily and according to the law, I am to declare my asset with the code of conduct and I have so declared. And not only that, I was the only governor in history who publicly declared his assets. This my Maryland, Lagos house you are seeing here, I commissioned it in 1996; that is my office, I finished it in 1997. But I told them I cannot remember everything but the one I could remember I wrote them and signed.

Another set of allegations, failure to declare asset. But I asked them, don’t we have an interagency corporation. If you want to find out whether I have declared my asset, go to the code of conduct, you will find it there completely documented and it is not a one-page declaration, I think it is about ten pages declaration, how do you expect me to remember that under this circumstances. So, that was the second set of allegations. All of a sudden, they said some billions were paid to some companies but finally they found out that it has nothing to do with me. Somebody laid water pipes to Ijebu-Ode, the expansion of the water, and they actually went to see whether the pipes were laid, so they removed that. Now, they saw that some companies that are doing business have paid money to Kresta Laurel, these companies do business with Ogun State and if they actually paid money to Kresta Laurel, to them, it obviously means it is bribery, totaling 211million naira, in chances of 1.5million, 2million, 8.2million, etc. They didn’t even find out what this payment is for. Crystal Laurel sells elevators and generators, I don’t even need to know who is buying. Crystal Laurel has a customer base of about 2,000 conservatively. I don’t know whether some of you are aware that few weeks ago, we received some expatriates. I hosted four of them at the Intercontinental Hotel where Crystal Laurel was declared as the best distribution company for Kone in the world for year 2013, 2014 consecutively.

Finally, they found us the documentation, LPO, Invoices, in fact those companies are still owing Crystal Laurel till today, they have not paid. So, that is the list of the 211million naira that has been speculated of being stolen.

What is your next political move?

What happened to me is like an irony because a new government came with pomp and pageantry, won the election, started doing his own bit, and I told my people that because the election had been fought and won, and for the sake of the state, let everybody cooperate with the new governor and let’s move on. Those were my public declarations consistently, but what happened? I guess the governor had decided that the only issue for him is OGD, you may not know what I am about to reveal to you. Every single step that he has taken, name it; any project that he has done, is just OGD. Either to erase OGD or to surpass OGD, how can that be the philosophy of a governor?

However, the fact of the case is that a large number of our people continue to blame me. I said what have I done wrong? I had just lost an election, you now have a new governor, and you are now blaming me for what you perceived to be the non-performance of this government. He is building bridges; he is constructing roads, so how does that become my problem? Our people said they could do with a better governor, and because of that they are blaming me. I had found myself in a position where I had no choice but to contribute to the process of giving our people a better government. If that means that I will have to work with Labour Party (LP), PDP it doesn’t matter, we just must find a formula to cause a change which people are now blaming me for. So, that is my next political move, God’s willing.

Even though I am supporting President Goodluck Jonathan, it shouldn’t come as a surprise, I campaigned for him; I led his South-West campaign, he won the election even though I got the wrong side of the state. I happen to understand because of the forces he had to contend with, I have not given him excuses.

However, matters of corruption have become so celebrated in Nigeria and I think that if I am his campaign coordinator, and EFCC has charged me, I may be demanding too much of him, infact it would have been better if I had no relationship with him at all. If I had been demanding too much of him, maybe he will say EFCC stop… No, I am not expecting that.

I am working for him because I have looked at the terrain and I have been around for quite sometime in this political environment. I am not saying he is the only one who could be president, but I think for now within the framework of the contemporary challenges we have as a country, he is better and for the sake of this country, he is better supported to run for second time, that is the reason why I am supporting him. If there is anybody who has a better reason why I shouldn’t support him, he should make the reason known and let’s debate it. But I don’t need to talk much, you are not unaware of the challenges we have when we had agitation from the South-South, how oil production in Nigeria went low, sometimes not more than about 30percent, income plummeted and the extortion was going on, kidnapping was at its increase, Nigeria was fast becoming a pariah nation, nobody was touching us. Recently, they said Nigeria is now ahead in terms of the economy in Africa.

When we play politics, we also have to be pragmatic. I think that, we need to maintain that equilibrium. Let President Jonathan have his second term and then we go back to the trenches again and begin to look for somebody who can succeed him, that is my position; pragmatism.

Is it true that Gov. Amosun introduced you to OBJ?

I was speaking with somebody some days back, he is a very good friend of the former Gov. Osoba. I said to him, do you remember one lady called Subu, the secretary to Osoba, he said yes. While Osoba was governor till 2003, Subu was his confidential secretary; the last person you will see before you could see the governor is Subu. I said, are you aware that I did not change Subu when I became governor and that same Subu was my secretary on that same chair till 2007 or 2008 (5years) before she was finally promoted, he opened his mouth. I asked further; are you aware that apart from my own driver that I took from here, all the drivers that were driving Osoba’s convoy were the same drivers that drove me throughout my tenure, he opened his mouth. Are you aware that in all of my eight years as governor of Ogun State that there was not a single project of Osoba that I renegotiated or abandoned, he opened his mouth. I said are you aware that there was no money that Osoba was owing either to contractors, to staff or to whoever that I didn’t pay, he opened his mouth.

This country will not progress until we appreciate our responsibility in government. Maybe as a corporate person, I appreciate this; that the only way you can provide stability for your creditors, for your customers is to make sure that there is consistency in policy. The only way the bank can help you is to see consistency, the only way people would want to invest is to see consistency. The projects that turn around the fortunes of people are not this short term perspective projects. The project that turns around the fortunes of the people are usually long term.

But when we continue to look at what we need to turn around the fortunes of our people from that short perspective; government comes and goes, that is what we have demonstrated. Regrettably, they said it doesn’t happen all the time and regrettably it is the direct opposite of what has happened in Ogun State today.

When a governor/president signs a project, it is sacrosanct; it is not Olusegun Obasanjo who signed it, it is the president of the Federal Republic. When as governor of Ogun State, OGD signs a paper call C of O, it is no longer an OGD matter, it is the government of Ogun State.

For instance, our governor has started what I call precedence, he is so excited that his predecessor is arraigned by the EFCC. Whether we like it or not subsequent governors of Ogun State will go under box. The income of Ogun State cannot sustain Ogun State, the income of Nigeria cannot sustain Nigeria. What sustains every country is long term projects. Most of you don’t know that Dubai has no oil, it is one of the few Middle East countries that have no oil but it is the most prosperous because they created the right environment for you and I to go and invest there, so we can enjoy our money.

There is only one thing that is happening in Switzerland, the only thing they have is Swiss watch which electronic watch has virtually taken over. How come Switzerland remains one of the richest countries in Europe; secret banking, your money, our money because they created an environment where people have confidence to take their resources to.

So, those are the issues and I thought at our level in Ogun State, with all our education, we are knowledgeable enough to appreciate some of these things. So, that is the only way I can answer your question about somebody introducing somebody to whom.

I attended Baptist Boys’ High School, Abeokuta just like OBJ, while he was prosecuting the civil war, I was already in school, he was one of our heroes; he came home to Abeokuta to our school to greet us. Seun Obasanjo who is running Obasanjo’s farms today and my first son, Rotimi grew up together. Who is this man who said he introduced me to who, what is he talking about? Let me tell you something today, I met Gov. Amosun for the very first time somewhere in Victoria Island, Lagos. He gave me his card. The next day, he came to my office and said he needed my help. Honestly, I don’t know him, but I listened to him. He begged me to help him get a job from Ex-Gov. Bola Tinubu’s government in Lagos State. He wanted to be collecting taxes for the Lagos State government, so I said to him, you are in PDP and you wanted a job from Bola Tinubu. He replied that he needed the job badly. I now asked him if he was in a hurry to leave my office, he said no, that he is ready to wait. I now asked him to go and sit at the reception. I called Wale Edun who was then the commissioner of finance of Lagos State. Wale came to my office and I told him Gov. Amosun’s situation, Wale now asked me if I really wanted to help him. I said well, I don’t know him, I just met him yesterday at a public function. But you can help him and eventually got the job.

Is it true that you abandoned roads in areas where people voted for Amosun in 2007?

I didn’t run a government of vendetta, as a matter of fact, I am shocked when you said some people voted for Gov. Amosun; which election? In 2003, we won all the elections, we lost only one house of assembly in Ogun Waterside out of 26. So, we had 25 House of Assembly members, nine House of Representatives members, three Senators. In 2007, we did better, we won all the 26 House of Assembly seats, all the three Senators, all the nine House of Representatives and we won the governorship. They took us to court and we also won.

So, I don’t know any location in Ogun State while I was contesting as governor that people didn’t vote for me. I am not aware that there is any location in Ogun State that I lost election to Gov. Amosun.

Talking about roads, whether we fix and we don’t fix, it is a question of money. What is in a road that you will not fix, is it not to award contract provided the money is there, but when the money is not enough, you will now begin to prioritize and you do your best. The governor of Delta State was saying if there are no more roads to tar in Delta that there is no need to have another governor. Forever, there will always be road to tar.

Let me tell you the situation in Sagamu, when Amosun started building his bridges in Abeokuta; of course, people from other zones started complaining. What the Sagamu people were complaining about is that; you have spent 9billion naira to build a bridge. Yesterday, I stopped at the bridge for like five minutes and it was only one car that passed the bridge. Below the bridge where we have the roundabout, there is no traffic. Is there no reason why we do bridges? No economic impact assessment.

I dualized road all the way to Ago-Iwoye, I dualized road up to Irolu, I have tarred, I have done the street lights and you now said OGD must not take credit for this. You awarded another contract, when there are so many inside roads begging for attention. Something is definitely wrong in the psych of the people running our state today. Whatever the case may be, they say the people decide the kind of government they get.

What is your relationship with Obasanjo?

OBJ is our Baba o! We can have fundamental difference based on principle, but he remains an elder statesman, I didn’t meet him at BBHS which means he is far above me, but we can disagree on principle. When somebody wrote that he spent N3billion to destabilize my administration, not N3billion to build but to destroy an administration, let’s assume N3billion is exaggerated, let’s say N1billion… Wetin I do na?

So, those are the things and when OBJ hears, he doesn’t check, it usually leads to disaster. And it is a thing of regret that the person who supported OBJ to destroy my administration is now after OBJ. Has it not occurred to you that all the letters that were written came from Ogun State; the one of OBJ, you will find OGD matter there; the one of Iyabo, you will find OGD matter there; the one of Buruji Kashamu, you will find OGD matter there. Why don’t we do some research, what is going on, so we can decide and disagree on principle.

I told you how I handled Osoba in my 8years of administration. Naturally, Osoba must be bitter because it was like the lord of the minor, a sitting governor and then a Goliath, then a David came and destroyed his wit. Not that there is anything I did beyond the election. The fact is that he was my predecessor and at 75 years I should not wish him well? That is not how we should build this country. So, I have just done my bit. That is a landmark in his life, he is getting closer to the grave and he ruled Ogun State to the best of his ability. I didn’t say he didn’t do well; to the best of his ability. When we came from a sterling faster lane, and we did things very differently, but at the end of the day, what does Nigeria want? Sometimes, it is the slow lane, because all the people who have come to do something, what happened to them? So, those are questions we need to answer.

Amosun did not introduce me to OBJ, I know that Amosun came to Chief Adegbenro and they took him to Owowo village that is how he got introduced to Ogun State. Then, the following election, he left Ewekoro, he contested from Abeokuta North, and now I learnt he has moved away from Abeokuta North to Ajura Ward and want to contest for Obafemi Owode Local Government. Those of you who are not politicians might not know the implication of that but politicians appreciate what that means.

I don’t remember the road you are talking about, but we awarded quite a number of roads; Ilu Awala, the one on the High Court, we did everything. Sometime in 2008/2009, there was something called economic meltdown, it was so bad for us in Ogun State; for instance, we actually had to cut down salaries of political office holders because we didn’t have money. On top of that, the House of Assembly saga came. On one occasion, the House of Assembly did not approve chemicals to treat water because they were playing politics and I had to source for loan to buy chemicals to treat water so we can avoid epidemics. So, those were the years of the locust, if you were awarded a contract to fix a road, and there was no money either to finish it; what would you do. It is not because I did not want to fix the road, but I just did not have the resources.

Don’t forget that all the things we tried to do were all frustrated. When I was leaving, I told them that the liability we left was about 49 and they said it is 100, that is another story. However, today, the House of Assembly is telling me that 2½years later, Ogun State has borrowed close to N300billion. So, all the roads and bridges are borrowed funds.

Did you feel betrayed by your loyalists since you left government?

Betrayal is another interpretation of politics. You know they said that I administer oath… Part of what they wrote. And I said why are the same people that I administered oath on betraying me? Why are they talking? Between you and I, if I take you to a shrine and you swore to me that if you ever betray me you will lose your child, will you ever dare to open up?

Olagunjoye wrote a petition, you have not looked at where he is coming from, whether he has any grudge… you are now taking that petition hook-line-and-sinker. Somebody said he swore to an oath, and you believed.

I was with Gbemi Saraki the previous week, and I said what is the problem between you and your brother? You know Bukola fought his father to standstill in the buildup of 2011 election, who is Bukola in politics? Oloye, his father brought him out but at the same point in time he faced his father. I asked Bukola, ‘why are you fighting baba, do you want this man to die earlier?’ He said OGD, let me go and win the election first, baba cannot impose. And that is Bukola, Oloye’s son. So, this thing called betrayal… forget it!!!

Most of my people are still with me; Soji is with me, Giwa is there… all the people you are seeing are still with me but there are still a few that felt that we have got what we want from him, we have used him, so let’s move on. That is life, but go and check their records, they don’t usually end well. In any case, the only person who cannot be betrayed is the winner, once you lose an election, just expect betrayals.

I was talking about projects, let me give you a typical example of how Ogun State lost; most of the people we attracted to Ogun State, we didn’t attract them to award contract to them. In eight years, I did not award any contract to any foreign country and we did a lot of work but with indigenous companies. In fact, it was even so bad that if you are not from Ogun State, it will be very tough, except I can’t find the company owned by an Ogun State indigene that can do the job. I am sorry for those who are not from Ogun State, but those are the people who elected me and I have the responsibility to put Ogun State money inside Ogun State people’s pocket as much as possible.

And what happened in the process, Ogun State became prosperous despite the limited resources that we have. Now there is capital flight and despite the big projects that you see, why are the people gnashing their teeth that they can’t see any money, why are they crying in the market? One of the things that we decided to do to identify the projects of Ogun State and turn around Ogun State permanently, one of which is the Deep Seaport. Many of you don’t know the meaning of Deep Seaport. If you know the history of Lagos, Apapa of 70 years ago, doesn’t exist; just a fishermen’s village. Just like Ode Omi in Ogun State today, Apapa was just a fishermen’s village. If you go and look at the history of Lagos State 50/60years ago, just like Ode Omi but when decided to build a deep seaport there. It is that port that was built that changed Apapa. Later, Tin Can Island port that turned Apapa into what it is today; industrially, economically, employment generation, etc. That is what we wanted to do with the Deep Sea Port at Ode Omi.

What has happened in Ogun State is economic disaster, I can tell you that one of the companies that we had attracted successfully to Ogun State is Dangote refinery; a 9billion dollars investment. The only thing that Dangote and so many others in that class demanded of us is that we have to construct a road that links from the location of that facility to the Sagamu/Ore/Benin Express; create a road for us, we will bring the industry so that we can now move our goods and services for distribution. So, I designed the road; in fact, the person who designed the road was Engr. Bayo Adeola. I am mentioning names because in future we will talk, I didn’t need an expatriate to design that road. It consists of two bridges and projects cost was valued at N5.6billion, and I didn’t have money and I said for me to retain those mega industries there, I needed to go to the bond market to raise some money to build that road. Because Ogun State government failed to do the road, they have moved that project to Lekki axis.

Lekki axis is the second choice, let me tell you; for Lagos it will be a disaster. The Lekki axis will now be like the present Apapa road with trailers.

Let me talk about Deep Sea Port; why we started the concept of Deep Sea Port, a deep sea port is a port that is deep, that can take those big vessels. There is no deep sea port in Nigeria, when you go and import anything coming from America, they come in big vessels through the pacific, they had to go to Europe and offload them to small vessels that can berth in the shallow port of Lagos Apapa Tin Can Island and Onne; shallow port.

The concept of Deep Sea Port was within about four countries; Nigeria where Olukola is; the border between Ondo and Ogun State but on Ogun State land. Senegal, Angola and Ghana, but when the Chinese came for the feasibility study, and I made them to do the feasibility study free of charge. And I said if you do it and is feasible, you will be our first choice to take the job. They found out that the deepest part of the sea is in Ogun State and the deeper, the cheaper the construction. Then, Senegal was fighting, Ghana was fighting and Angola was fighting because we are all in that axis, they also have certain dept but the Chinese said is only one in that row that is feasible, once you do one, the rest are no longer feasible and so Ogun State was chosen. And I said if this is the only thing I have achieved in history, I have finished.

Now we had failed to spend N5billion on a road that will attract a refinery that does not exist in Nigeria; all the ones here are not working. Gov. Amosun has spent N9billion to do the bridge in Sagamu where there is no traffic.

Why we conceptualize the cargo airport, it was meant to be an agricultural cargo airport. I will tell you the simple thing that we have discovered, I went to America, our friend; Dr. Sony Adelaja, he is back in Nigeria now. He was the Dean of the faculty in a foreign university and he said, His Excellency, what are you doing in Ogun State, I said what again. He said, let me tell you; do you know how much Ghana and Kenya are making in exporting agricultural produce to America. He said we have good and fresh agricultural produce here in Nigeria but because they are perishable, we need a facility within 24hours to carry them abroad. He said when an aeroplane is coming from Nigeria to Europe, it is always empty. He said Nigerians will be coming with empty boxes but when they are coming back, it is overloaded. At peanuts, any airline will carry it for you because usually when they are coming out from Nigeria, they have no load.

Therefore, if you are able to do a dedicated cargo airport in Ogun State, where you can easily access this agricultural produce, it will be a success. What the investors told us was that we must construct a road that will link the airport to the expressway. Gov. Amosun has not constructed that road, because OGD started it, it is now a refuge dump. What are we looking for? We have spent N270billion on road expansion; not brand new roads.

Since the advent of this administration, I am not aware of any brand new road that they have opened up. They are only working on road expansion.

Why did you choose to join Labour Party?

Labour is a child of circumstance, God used me to build PDP. I think it is important for people to know that in all of this movement to political parties, it has nothing to do with personal ambition. Because if you people in the media appreciate that, then you begin to see the bigger future.

In 2011, it was not about ambition otherwise I would have negotiated, it was about 40 authentic PDP candidates who wanted to contest; one governor, one deputy, three senators, 9 house of representatives and 26 house of assembly members. They went into an open primaries, on the field got their ticket and then somebody said no. Those people now were left in the cold and they now offered me senatorial ticket but I said no! It is not about me; that was the reason why I said if it is about my senatorial ambition, forget it. In any case, if I am running president Jonathan’s campaign in the South-West, I won’t be able to run it if I become a bonafide member of PPN but I cannot stop all these people from pursuing their political ambition. So, if they wanted to go to PPN because they have been cheated, let them go. So, it wasn’t because of my personal ambition.

So, PPN came, the election was fought and won though the election was not as expected, that is about life. I was told Abraham Lincoln contested for American president 13 times before he finally won. I am not aware of any bigger name who has occupied that position than Abraham Lincoln today.

Are you ready to reconcile with PDP?

God knows that I started reconciliation within PDP immediately after the election, despite my challenges and that is why you see virtually everybody coming out. This politics that we are playing, I believe very strongly that there must be a line that we must not cross, maybe that is what we call principle. When you ask me to cross that line, you won’t find me there and that is what the whole process is all about.

When we tried everything we could and it was not working, I said gentlemen, what is your next plan? I am aware that we must have had maybe about 20/30 meetings to be or not to be, and the people said OGD, come and lead us into Labour if PDP is not doing what they are supposed to do. In all my life, I have never been worried about pioneering effort. I can start from the scratch, I started Crystal Laurel from the scratch. When we were going to PDP, it was suicidal here in the South-West.

What is your relationship with Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu?

Jagaban is my friend. When he came back from exile, he lived with me for three months. I gave him my office at Crystal Laurel for free.